Value Proposition When Swapping

I saw a comment of aephi here - https://en.numista.com/forum/topic109842.html.

And I remembered how I was thinking about the same feature earlier.

I am not sure if it is doable but maybe it is a good idea to leave a space where swappers can add a value that they have in mind when swapping. Very often people value coins in different ways, use different catalogs, approaches, different countries have different prices. What happens is that one swapper estimates the value to be, let's say $50, another one $30. And it is hard to know where this discrepancy of $20 comes from. Usually, the biggest difference comes from a few coins. And if these coins are known, then an agreement will be more likely to happen.

I think the way I see it is to have an empty box where we can put an estimated value from our side. And another box where another swapper can put his or hers. Possibly, the different currencies will be automatically converted to the one members select in their profiles. This feature can be optional, and not be required to confirm a swap.

I hope it makes sense of what I am asking.

Thank you!

Quote: "iiruig"...maybe it is a good idea to leave a space where swappers can add a value that they have in mind when swapping.

​I'm not so sure - I think this could become an unnecessary point of contention, to tell someone else what you think of the coins they offer in blunt numerical terms.

Say I have a nice 1900 shilling for swap, and you offer me a nice 1900 quarter in return, in the same condition. If we're both negotiating with goodwill, then we realise they're pretty similar, and a roughly fair swap.

However, I may consider both coins to be VF, you may think them both XF. I may have a 2010 catalogue, with lower values than your 2020 edition. These are going to cause pretty big discrepancies in our evaluations of each coin, and only complicate matters, since we now have to make two sets of values agree (unless we largely ignore these values, in which case, why have the system?). You may feel insulted by my valuation, I may be put off by yours - this system could lead not to agreement, but to misunderstanding.

You already can put a value for your coins in the public comment to deter silly offers, so I say let good communication and good faith do the work, not exact calculation with book prices. Someone haggling over every penny and trying to undervalue your coins is never a good partner anyway.

Thank you for your feedback, epizeuxisofhapaxes!

I understand that when swapping or looking only at 1 coin, it does not really make sense. But when you swap 10+ coins, and they are all different (common modern, commemorative, ancient, silver, different grades, banknotes, rare & common, sometimes 1 coin for 20 coins, etc.), it is very hard to compare coin to coin, or banknote to banknote without taking into account its value. Sometimes I have to list my estimated values to explain, and then the other person does the same in a message. Then it appears that I value some ancient Greek coin at $10, but he values it at let's say $25. It does not mean that we disrespect each other, but it means that we don't agree on its value and we should omit it from the swap and try to balance the rest of the coins.

It is a necessary part of the process, I believe, and I have done it through messages, but it may be more convenient to do it right next to the listed coins.

Your system still risks replacing that well-mannered disagreement with the perfunctory, decontextualised placing of a number in a box. Good swappers will be fine with this new feature and explain their decisions, but would have done anyway. Bad swappers will be enabled in their poor communication habits and unreasonable demands.

Better to accept it as it is, a little slower though it may be, than try to get around the honest and good-natured communication required of a pleasant swap.

If there are swappers who already do that via the messaging system, then I agree that this would facilitate their business.
And if using this system were optional, it wouldn't do any harm.

Quote: "numinis"​And if using this system were optional, it wouldn't do any harm.

​If both parties had to opt into it (as a setting), so I would never see it, then maybe.

But if someone, uninvited, was able to put ignorant values to my coins without having seen them, and was encouraged by the system to haggle over exact values, then we are introducing a new and ugly element to the exchange process. Where we introduce money into the equation, we risk worsening the spirit in which exchanges are conducted.

A swap should be
"I'm getting some great coins that improve my collection, in return for some unwanted ones (of roughly similar value), and helping another collector out"
not
"Hey, why should he be £2.30 up on this? Time to ask for some coins I don't really want"

Both of these types of swapper exist and there's not much we can do about as a website, but your proposal broadly encourages the latter type. What we would be facilitating is meanness.

Quote: "epizeuxisofhapaxes"​A swap should be
​"I'm getting some great coins that improve my collection, in return for some unwanted ones (of roughly similar value), and helping another collector out"
​not
​"Hey, why should he be £2.30 up on this? Time to ask for some coins I don't really want"
​
​Both of these types of swapper exist and there's not much we can do about as a website, but your proposal broadly encourages the latter type. What we would be facilitating is meanness.

​This is a very valid point!

When I was swapped it was never out of economic winning, but to improve my collection. I remember the first time someone started to talk about the value of the swap, and I hadn't even spent a second about that. I just found coins that I liked, and the other party had chosen coins that he liked (I assumed), but then he was like: "Well, this one is 5 dollars, so you will have to give me five more coins", I'd be like "Uhm, or not."

The question is:
1) Do you want to improve your collection
or
2) Do you want to improve you financial status

If it's 1, you should stick to swapping, but if it's 2, you should just sell them.

It's interesting, but in many of my swaps I have listed them using expòrt to Excel feature, then added the needed columns for values, and when done, I sent to swap partner. So they could see my vision of values and make their comments.

Quote: "adanieluy"​It's interesting, but in many of my swaps I have listed them using expòrt to Excel feature, then added the needed columns for values, and when done, I sent to swap partner. So they could see my vision of values and make their comments.

​Yes, there are ways to go around it if needed. But it seems that some people here think it is a needed tool here, and some think it is unnecessary or even shouldn't be on Numista.