Struggling with coin photography...

This is driving me absolutely crazy. It's just a rant in part but please do help if you can.

I've decided I need to sell some coins, and to sell some coins I need good pictures, so I've embarked on this mission.

So I have a method of photographing, camera on copy stand, lights bright and as close to the lens as possible.

105mm lens, F8, 1/200 shutter speed.

Looked good so I did some coins: a few examples below. Great depth of field.










Then I take a picture of this coin below, a 1899 Denmark 2KR, and think 'wtf, half his hair is missing; I must be missing details on all my coins because the lights are flooding it out. I turn off the lights, and sure enough his hair is back.



At this point I decide, lights are no good, they might be hiding details or defects, so I go back to square one and reshoot using natural light. Results below (ignore the bad background cropping, i need to train the ANN of my AI more for these ones)





So far, so good I think. We've managed to pick up some light obverse scratches on the Twopenny, and the details on the Spanish 5P are way clearer.

However, depth of field is far worse. Here's the other three.







In short, what we seem to have gained in detail, we've lost in lustre, attractiveness, and depth of field. They basically suck.

I then tried diffusing the lights around a light tent. It's no better for detail. You still look hair and scratches under magnification. (though the danish 2kr really shows the problem best, it's also noticable on most places, especially with 'hair')

What do I do to fix this? Does anybody have tips? Or do I just suck at photography?

If you got this far, thanks for reading my rant!

Honestly Oggy, I would rate all your photos as excellent.
I think you are being harsh on yourself.
It is definitely hardwork and you just need to carry on with your efforts.

You can try to use photoredactors like Lightroom to make details in dark (and sometmes white) parts more visible using RAW photos as a souse. But definitely you will have to find a personal balance between luster and details. Personally I prefer mild natural lights from one side (window with no sunny weather) without any reflectors...

Hi Oggy,

Sorry I cannot help you with the photos. Will you be selling on eBay? If so could I have the link please as there is some really nice coins there I'd be keen to buy :)

Matt

I feel your pain my friend.

About 4 years ago I decided the answer to my poor photos was a decent 35mm camera. Perfect timing, as my daughter was taking a course in "old style" photography with a dark room and chemicals to produce a final print.

To say I bit off more than I can chew is an understatement. Light source is critical. Then you have to know about apertures and shutter speed. A good photo editor, GIMP in my case, is a must. Lastly, I still need to purchase a proper Macro lens.

A long story short. Mostly I feel the time and money could have been put towards some outstanding coins (but being stubborn, I still haven't given up on this project).

Good luck.

Post editing (I mean basic adjustments like level, brightness or contrast)

Chris

P.S

For showing details of the coin, better try different angles but you have to experiment a lot to get the right one for different coins

Hi,
This is my process.

• I use the Ipevo V4K Document camera that has auto focus on amazon
  
• I use this lighting kit on amazon
  
• I use this Scissor Jack on amazon
  
• i also use a random led light for head on lighting and a matte black board on top of jack lift
  

Step 1. I raise the jack so that the camera can be as close as possible and still focus correctly.



Step 2. I capture the image on my computer using the software the camera comes with at the highest resolution it allows and use the Round Crop feature in Photoscape.


Step 3. I repeat process for second side.


Final results. Details are nice and crisp.





If its a smaller coin I am taking a picture of I just raise the scissor lift a bit so that it is closer to lens.


Its quick and easy.

Some other final results for my ebay images




Thanks & Enjoy,
Aaron

Quote: "aaronmgd"​Hi,
​This is my process.
​

• I use the Ipevo V4K Document camera that has auto focus on amazon
  ​
  
• I use this lighting kit on amazon
  ​
  
• I use this Scissor Jack on amazon
  ​
  
• i also use a random led light for head on lighting and a matte black board on top of jack lift
  ​
  

​
​
​Step 1. I raise the jack so that the camera can be as close as possible and still focus correctly.
​
​
​
​Step 2. I capture the image on my computer using the software the camera comes with at the highest resolution it allows and use the Round Crop feature in Photoscape.
​
​
​Step 3. I repeat process for second side.
​
​
​Final results. Details are nice and crisp.
​
​
​
​
​
​If its a smaller coin I am taking a picture of I just raise the scissor lift a bit so that it is closer to lens.
​
​
​Its quick and easy.
​
​Some other final results for my ebay images
​
​
​
​
​Thanks & Enjoy,
​Aaron
​

That is simply breathtaking​.... superb photos. All the fine nuances, intricate designs and lustre are seen really well. Professional touch

I have to say both you and Aaron take great pics and I wish I was as good as either one of you. I will add that I am a bit envious of the setup you have Aaron. It seems like a very reasonably priced setup for the quality that your producing.

Matt

Quote: "Myeackle"​I have to say both you and Aaron take great pics and I wish I was as good as either one of you. I will add that I am a bit envious of the setup you have Aaron. It seems like a very reasonably priced setup for the quality that your producing.
​
​Matt

​thanks. No special skills at all involved... Total setup cost me about $150.00. For some reason (i assume because of remote learning due to covid) the ipevo is expensive now. I bought it for $89.00.
from start to finish each coin/medal picture takes me about 3-4 minutes including the cropping and photo mash-up.
Aaron

Quote: "Grinya"​You can try to use photoredactors like Lightroom to make details in dark (and sometmes white) parts more visible using RAW photos as a souse. But definitely you will have to find a personal balance between luster and details. Personally I prefer mild natural lights from one side (window with no sunny weather) without any reflectors...

​
Yes, when shooting like this I feel I get complete detail. I just lose some depth and lustre/colour. The problem is, as you saw from the German coins.... only SOME get affected the other way, so perhaps I need to shoot each coin both ways, compare, and then select the one that's acceptable.

I think the GB Twopenny is the best example of what I mean:

Under sharp light - it gets the perfect depth and most details, you see beautiful depth under brittanias feet and the hints of original color. You also get near perfect rim detail which is important on this series due to the depth:



Now if we look under natural light: The soho is more pronounced, brittanias toes are definitely better, her face is better, George is better, and we start to see the light bagmarks/contact marks. However, the color is way less vivid, and we've lost a load of depth.



As a buyer I'd want all these minute details before spending lots on a coin, but I'd also want to see the superb lack of wear and rims etc. Therefore as a seller I want the coin to look attractive without "hiding" details that a collector will see under the loupe as soon as he receives it.

Quote: "Peter M. Graham"​I feel your pain my friend.
​
​About 4 years ago I decided the answer to my poor photos was a decent 35mm camera. Perfect timing, as my daughter was taking a course in "old style" photography with a dark room and chemicals to produce a final print.
​
​To say I bit off more than I can chew is an understatement. Light source is critical. Then you have to know about apertures and shutter speed. A good photo editor, GIMP in my case, is a must. Lastly, I still need to purchase a proper Macro lens.
​
​A long story short. Mostly I feel the time and money could have been put towards some outstanding coins (but being stubborn, I still haven't given up on this project).
​
​Good luck.

​
It's really crazy how in depth it is. I've tried 100 different methods. I think I have the post processing working now using darktable to edit and then convert, but the actual photography is ugh..

Imagine if I'd bought more coins, I could have had an extra 1927 GB proof set for this!

Quote: "aaronmgd"​Hi,
​This is my process.
​

• I use the Ipevo V4K Document camera that has auto focus on amazon
  ​
  
• I use this lighting kit on amazon
  ​
  
• I use this Scissor Jack on amazon
  ​
  
• i also use a random led light for head on lighting and a matte black board on top of jack lift
  ​
  

​
​
​Step 1. I raise the jack so that the camera can be as close as possible and still focus correctly.
​
​
​
​Step 2. I capture the image on my computer using the software the camera comes with at the highest resolution it allows and use the Round Crop feature in Photoscape.
​
​
​Step 3. I repeat process for second side.
​
​
​Final results. Details are nice and crisp.
​
​
​
​
​
​If its a smaller coin I am taking a picture of I just raise the scissor lift a bit so that it is closer to lens.
​
​
​Its quick and easy.
​
​Some other final results for my ebay images
​
​
​
​
​Thanks & Enjoy,
​Aaron
​

​
Thank you for your excellent guide. I'll be purchasing a scissor jack. However I feel you suffer from a detail loss the same/more than I do. Which may be a limitation of your camera or lighting, I'm not sure.

ps. I keep meaning to pm you. Might get round to that today.

Quote: "Myeackle"​I have to say both you and Aaron take great pics and I wish I was as good as either one of you. I will add that I am a bit envious of the setup you have Aaron. It seems like a very reasonably priced setup for the quality that your producing.
​
​Matt

​
One of the most infuriating things I found was when I whipped out my phone (samsung s10) for a quick snap as I often do, and it magically took a better picture than my setup :/ It's voodoo magic I tell you.

Quote: "oggy"​

Quote: "Myeackle"​I have to say both you and Aaron take great pics and I wish I was as good as either one of you. I will add that I am a bit envious of the setup you have Aaron. It seems like a very reasonably priced setup for the quality that your producing.
​​
​​Matt

​​
​One of the most infuriating things I found was when I whipped out my phone (samsung s10) for a quick snap as I often do, and it magically took a better picture than my setup :/ It's voodoo magic I tell you.

​s10 takes great photos. I have one as well. However I like a dedicated setup as I don't need to angle and fidget for a straight photo. And best of all its direct to my PC so no need to transfer photos. I'm too lazy to spend too much time and I don't know the 1st thing about photography.
Aaron

Quote: "aaronmgd"​

Quote: "oggy"​
​

Quote: "Myeackle"​I have to say both you and Aaron take great pics and I wish I was as good as either one of you. I will add that I am a bit envious of the setup you have Aaron. It seems like a very reasonably priced setup for the quality that your producing.
​​​
​​​Matt

​​​
​​One of the most infuriating things I found was when I whipped out my phone (samsung s10) for a quick snap as I often do, and it magically took a better picture than my setup :/ It's voodoo magic I tell you.

​​s10 takes great photos. I have one as well. However I like a dedicated setup as I don't need to angle and fidget for a straight photo. And best of all its direct to my PC so no need to transfer photos. I'm too lazy to spend too much time and I don't know the 1st thing about photography.
​Aaron

​
Same lol.

On the technical side, my D3400 is hooked up to the laptop via a cable, and then i use digicamcontrol for the actual viewing/setting camera settings and shooting. It then automatically downloads the photo. I left that part out as its pretty boring to most probably, but its helpful insofar that I dont need to bother moving the photos.

My workflow is like this:

Put coin in place
Check on laptop, take photo on laptop
Open raw file in darktable, adjust exposure a bit if needed and crop, export to jpeg
Run through my AI for cropping, then use https://www.imgonline.com.ua/eng/combine-two-images-into-one.php to combine and resize. Save

Look into the older version of photoscape. Offline and simple to use. Cropping is manual but very quick with Round Crop 1:1 option. Combining photos together is a breeze and photo mash-up (called pages in photoscape) is perfect when used with the roundness feature set at its max and photo size 750x750 px.

As far as photo detail you mentioned above. If I tweak it a bit I get MUCH better results. But like I said.... I'm just too lazy for that. I just want the photos to be a true representation of what I am selling and for it to be a quick process without the need for me to play around or tweak in photo software. I do absolutely zero adjustment to photo post image taking.

Aaron

Quote: "oggy"​
​I think the GB Twopenny is the best example of what I mean:
​
​Under sharp light - it gets the perfect depth and most details, you see beautiful depth under brittanias feet and the hints of original color. You also get near perfect rim detail which is important on this series due to the depth:
​
​
​
​Now if we look under natural light: The soho is more pronounced, brittanias toes are definitely better, her face is better, George is better, and we start to see the light bagmarks/contact marks. However, the color is way less vivid, and we've lost a load of depth.
​
​
​
​As a buyer I'd want all these minute details before spending lots on a coin, but I'd also want to see the superb lack of wear and rims etc. Therefore as a seller I want the coin to look attractive without "hiding" details that a collector will see under the loupe as soon as he receives it.
​

​Personally I like the first photo much more. But I'd add some contrast there

In case you work in RAW, the jpeg noise won't be visible)


Your second photo required higher shutter speed for not loosing the detailes in white areas, imho

Quote: "aaronmgd"​
​

​

​This works quite well with coppers, but there are too much light on silver. All the details were lost with so strong light....

Quote: "Grinya"​

Quote: "oggy"​
​​I think the GB Twopenny is the best example of what I mean:
​​
​​Under sharp light - it gets the perfect depth and most details, you see beautiful depth under brittanias feet and the hints of original color. You also get near perfect rim detail which is important on this series due to the depth:
​​
​​
​​
​​Now if we look under natural light: The soho is more pronounced, brittanias toes are definitely better, her face is better, George is better, and we start to see the light bagmarks/contact marks. However, the color is way less vivid, and we've lost a load of depth.
​​
​​
​​
​​As a buyer I'd want all these minute details before spending lots on a coin, but I'd also want to see the superb lack of wear and rims etc. Therefore as a seller I want the coin to look attractive without "hiding" details that a collector will see under the loupe as soon as he receives it.
​​

​​Personally I like the first photo much more. But I'd add some contrast there
​
​In case you work in RAW, the jpeg noise won't be visible)
​
​
​Your second photo required higher shutter speed for not loosing the detailes in white areas, imho

​
I agree, it looks far better. However you can see its missing some details that the 2nd one has. (look at the light scratches on the obverse behind his head).

Shutter speed is 1/200-250 I think. I could probably make it faster still.

I feel like I could probably help but macro really isn’t my type of photography but light is everything with photography.

you Want to shoot with a narrow aperture to obtain the best depth of field without causing diffraction. Usually f8-11 will be around the “sweet spot” of any lens. Usually a 100mm macro specific lens is best for this. Being as parallel as possible to the coin really is a must for obtaining true sharpness too. The next step is lighting, I’d be inclined to add a handful of side lights from 4 angles or possibly just a ring light.

Quote: "Mark240590"​I feel like I could probably help but macro really isn’t my type of photography but light is everything with photography.
​
​you Want to shoot with a narrow aperture to obtain the best depth of field without causing diffraction. Usually f8-11 will be around the “sweet spot” of any lens. Usually a 100mm macro specific lens is best for this. Being as parallel as possible to the coin really is a must for obtaining true sharpness too. The next step is lighting, I’d be inclined to add a handful of side lights from 4 angles or possibly just a ring light.

​
This is pretty much exactly my setup!

Sigma 105 which apparently has a sweet spot of f8. Very happy with my depth of field under the lights.

Macro photography is such a huge pain in the ass.

Quote: "oggy"​

Quote: "Mark240590"​I feel like I could probably help but macro really isn’t my type of photography but light is everything with photography.
​​
​​you Want to shoot with a narrow aperture to obtain the best depth of field without causing diffraction. Usually f8-11 will be around the “sweet spot” of any lens. Usually a 100mm macro specific lens is best for this. Being as parallel as possible to the coin really is a must for obtaining true sharpness too. The next step is lighting, I’d be inclined to add a handful of side lights from 4 angles or possibly just a ring light.
​
​

​​
​This is pretty much exactly my setup!
​
​Sigma 105 which apparently has a sweet spot of f8. Very happy with my depth of field under the lights.
​
​Macro photography is such a huge pain in the ass.

​`You'll find that most of the best macro images you'll see are actually stacked focus. what camera do you use ? on my fuji I can bracket the focus.

D3400 - I'm using center-weighted metering if that matters



I think I posted this example before, but this is the main problem:

First image produced by"artificial lights" (tried in every way possible that i know - diffused outside a tent, near the lens, sideways.

Second image produced by "natural light" (copy stand by the window, cloudy sky)

Toning down exposure/white balance etc in the 1st shot didnt seem to help, so I moved to the natural light method. Which seems to have its own problems. (also it's not picking up how lustrous my coins are!!!)

Quote: "oggy"​D3400 - I'm using center-weighted metering if that matters
​
​
​
​I think I posted this example before, but this is the main problem:
​
​First image produced by"artificial lights" (tried in every way possible that i know - diffused outside a tent, near the lens, sideways.
​
​Second image produced by "natural light" (copy stand by the window, cloudy sky)
​
​Toning down exposure/white balance etc in the 1st shot didnt seem to help, so I moved to the natural light method. Which seems to have its own problems. (also it's not picking up how lustrous my coins are!!!)
​

​Ive sent you a message would be easier to discuss it via an instant message, that way you could maybe try things and let me know.

Quote: "Mark240590"​

Quote: "oggy"​D3400 - I'm using center-weighted metering if that matters
​​
​​
​​
​​I think I posted this example before, but this is the main problem:
​​
​​First image produced by"artificial lights" (tried in every way possible that i know - diffused outside a tent, near the lens, sideways.
​​
​​Second image produced by "natural light" (copy stand by the window, cloudy sky)
​​
​​Toning down exposure/white balance etc in the 1st shot didnt seem to help, so I moved to the natural light method. Which seems to have its own problems. (also it's not picking up how lustrous my coins are!!!)
​​

​​Ive sent you a message would be easier to discuss it via an instant message, that way you could maybe try things and let me know.

​
Many thanks. Fix this to my satisfaction and you can have yet another trade dollar for your collection! (not even joking)

I'VE DONE IT I THINK.

1. Mark is a Genius
2. A day of hard work after that got me to where I am
3. If you know any free programs that can accurately remove backgrounds please let me know

Not a problem mate. Just glad you’re there now :)

Quote: "oggy"​I'VE DONE IT I THINK.
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​1. Mark is a Genius
​2. A day of hard work after that got me to where I am
​3. If you know any free programs that can accurately remove backgrounds please let me know
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Nice photos.
If you use a Mac - the preview feature allows you to crop​ in a circle.