Hi,
couple days ago i have received coins from Greenland and Faroe Islands and wonder why they are not count as countries i get information that they are danish realm. I understand that, sounds right. Made some research about it and discovered that some realms are better the others. The UK Overseas territories are count as country ! Are they a country ? No, they are dependent territories and should be moved under UK. But they are not. Why ? Made a checklist using this information : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory
I received information that they still issue coins and cant me be moved. So we move territories under what criteria ? I.e. This "country" British Antarctic Territory issue a coin so treat as country but hey Faroe Islands dont issue , just move under Denmark and make as issuer not a country. I fell fair that Faroe is under Denamark but why BAT is not under UK ? Anguilla's last issued coin is 1970 ( 47 years ago ) and is not under UK. This topic is not about chasing countries but to have fair divided list. What was the reason to move Faroe Islands and Greenland under the Denmark and other countries ? Why we cant do this with UK Overseas Territories? Are they protected by someone or what ? I feel in that way, and feel that UK Overseas Territories are better "countries" then others dependent territories. I'm curious of your opinion, maybe im the only one who is mistaken.
In my point of view, all dependent territories should be listed as sub-sections of their countries (degradated to the 'issuers' status). All those Arubas, Alderneys and Anguillas are not the same 'countries' as Albania or Afghanistan and definitely should be moved. In case of Greenland and Faroe Islands, this is just the same case - they are subsections now.
Quote: "Jarcek"Making country list in a way everybody would like it is hard job. World and its history are just too complex.
Splitting is just a first step. We aim for more personalised country list, one that would be navigable with ease, adding filters and personal options.
Jarek it's not about if I like it or no. Its about discrimination other countries. In what Uk Overseas territories are better the other dependent territories ?
Quote: "Indomini16"I agree ! Why UK Overseas Territories are listed and not the French ones?
Because French ones do not issue real coinage.
These ones and only these 3 ones are as real as the ones from South Georgia & S. Sandwich Islands, it's not fantasies as they have been issued by the French official mint with the Official French currency in circulation at that time, and they have been issued for the TAAF
Quote: "Indomini16"I agree ! Why UK Overseas Territories are listed and not the French ones?
Because French ones do not issue real coinage.
These ones and only these 3 ones are as real as the ones from South Georgia & S. Sandwich Islands, it's not fantasies as they have been issued by the French offical mint with the Official French currency in circulation at that time, and they have been issued for the TAAF
I was not aware of these. Any reference about them? Krause seems to give them to France.
Quote: "Jarcek"Only distinction is that they still issue coins.
So they are "better" because they are still issue coins right ? Isn't that discrimination in that case?
What about Anguilla - last issued coin by numista year 1970 while Reunion last issued coin is 1973. Reunion is under France, Anguilla is not under UK...
Another example
BES Islands, Netherlands Antilles still issues coins and are under Netherlands .
UK overseas territories still issues coins are not under UK
Isn't that discrimination in that case? If not then what ?
Yes, Jarek you told me, but arent we here to make Numista better ? Noticed that something is wrong with this and reported. Maybe im wrong but best thing we can do is put uk overseas territories under UK American Samoa under USA, same for Niue, Tokelau and cook Islands under New Zeland and others. I think its the best way to make sure that other dependencies are not discriminated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory
Quote: "doc_man"Yes, Jarek you told me, but arent we here to make Numista better ? Noticed that something is wrong with this and reported. Maybe im wrong but best thing we can do is put uk overseas territories under UK American Samoa under USA, same for Niue, Tokelau and cook Islands under New Zeland and others. I think its the best way to make sure that other dependencies are not discriminated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory
Regards,
Damian
He said that he would work on it. What more could you want?
Quote: "doc_man"Yes, Jarek you told me, but arent we here to make Numista better ? Noticed that something is wrong with this and reported. Maybe im wrong but best thing we can do is put uk overseas territories under UK American Samoa under USA, same for Niue, Tokelau and cook Islands under New Zeland and others. I think its the best way to make sure that other dependencies are not discriminated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_territory
Regards,
Damian
He said that he would work on it. What more could you want?
All i want is a fair division and make sure that any country or issuer is not discriminated. Ntn as you are referee for some dependent territories and this topic concern you, may i know your opinion ?
Quote: "Jarcek"We will review each of them and decide on them during next admin meeting. I cannot do it faster.
Jarek, i dont expect that you will do right now, its obvious this need time. It will be great if you could move them this year. For me enough is confirmation that they will be moved. Currently they are "bette"r then other dependent territories
Regards,
Damian
agree with doc-man.
As for me - I liked " old" navigation map. Alphabetical. and not " who is under whom".
Admins should do site more easy year by year, but we do it more difficult. we force members ( some of them are 12-13 years old...) to know World political History excellently. and not just contemporary, but old, and ancient too.
month ago a guy wrote me, and he was really crying - He could not find "Ruanda-Urundi" . :) :) :)
I understand, and agree, that all italian states should be moved under " ITALIAN STATES" , because they were italian states.
But difficult to find Saarland coins under Germany. Tannu coin under Russia, and Zanzibar under Tanzania. You think, that if You know that Sultanat of Zanzibar was once on the territory of todays Tanzania, then everybody should know it.. its wrong logic. Nothing common between Tanzania and Zanzibar Sultanate.
finally, we are modifying, modifying, and modifying this site map, but we built something which too difficult to understand.
I d say again: - Navigation map, or site map should make one happy to use site, and not think that it is a community of too clever historians.
yours
D
They have the giant RF of official Republic of France issues. How would these be different than the portuguese Madeira and Azores issues which are given to Portugal when they say what they say? I have the mind that all countries should count. Im still holding out for others to get this distinction. I love how Numista keeps going forward! Great jobs.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Hi,
Few thoughts to keep in mind and related to content of above posts:
This is not only about focusing on the country list... Changes over the past weeks and the coming weeks involve search tools, coin files, picture sources, engravers links, metal fields, messages, swaps, dashboard, forums, guidelines, cosmetic updates, etc.
No country/territory is better than another country/territory: that's a never ending discussion/argument/point of view (call it whatever you want) coming back regularly on forum with the same conclusion...there is none.
No country list will ever make all Numista members happy and we are aware of it: Never.
Search boxes: you type in, you find it...I can't provide easier explanation or way to achieve it. Most of messages I get from members that do not find a country is related to...typos only. We're all human after all.
Country list is currently being reorganized in some ways, meaning some things:
have already been changed;
are currently being done;
are planned for implementation;
are on the agenda for discussion/approval/rejection.
In the case of country listing and realted, each point has to be validated within admin meeting. There is no way the listing would be changed following each separate forum post otherwise this would make it worse and impossible to track errors to fix them.
Conclusion: Many requests for many countries from many members...this just takes time to clear them all.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Quote: "pejounet"Hi,
Few thoughts to keep in mind and related to content of above posts:
This is not only about focusing on the country list... Changes over the past weeks and the coming weeks involve search tools, coin files, picture sources, engravers links, metal fields, messages, swaps, dashboard, forums, guidelines, cosmetic updates, etc.
No country/territory is better than another country/territory: that's a never ending discussion/argument/point of view (call it whatever you want) coming back regularly on forum with the same conclusion...there is none.
No country list will ever make all Numista members happy and we are aware of it: Never.
Search boxes: you type in, you find it...I can't provide easier explanation or way to achieve it. Most of messages I get from members that do not find a country is related to...typos only. We're all human after all.
Country list is currently being reorganized in some ways, meaning some things:
have already been changed;
are currently being done;
are planned for implementation;
are on the agenda for discussion/approval/rejection.
In the case of country listing and realted, each point has to be validated within admin meeting. There is no way the listing would be changed following each separate forum post otherwise this would make it worse and impossible to track errors to fix them.
Conclusion: Many requests for many countries from many members...this just takes time to clear them all.
I received information that after admin meeting there was decision that Uk overseas territories cant be moved and the reason was : they still issue coins. I felt this is wrong and discriminate other countries/territories that is why i decide to create this post. I dont want argue. What i want is just fair division and already get confirmation here that this will be done. Now I wait and see if this will be reviewed properly.
You guys doing a great job and thank you very much for splitting Poland !
There are many disparities in the catalogue which are being forwarded to the team. They are working on them. This one is actually a pretty big one and will take time. I'm sure given how pedantic Jareck is it will be done sooner than most would expect of such a huge task !
Quote: "Dato Mikeladze"agree with doc-man.
As for me - I liked " old" navigation map. Alphabetical. and not " who is under whom".
Admins should do site more easy year by year, but we do it more difficult. we force members ( some of them are 12-13 years old...) to know World political History excellently. and not just contemporary, but old, and ancient too.
month ago a guy wrote me, and he was really crying - He could not find "Ruanda-Urundi" . :) :) :)
I understand, and agree, that all italian states should be moved under " ITALIAN STATES" , because they were italian states.
But difficult to find Saarland coins under Germany. Tannu coin under Russia, and Zanzibar under Tanzania. You think, that if You know that Sultanat of Zanzibar was once on the territory of todays Tanzania, then everybody should know it.. its wrong logic. Nothing common between Tanzania and Zanzibar Sultanate.
finally, we are modifying, modifying, and modifying this site map, but we built something which too difficult to understand.
I d say again: - Navigation map, or site map should make one happy to use site, and not think that it is a community of too clever historians.
yours
D
I totally agree with Dato. I'm collecting world coins for more than 45 years and even I sometimes can't find a "country" anymore and wonder where the hell have they put it. And then I think at beginners and really wonder how they could find a more uncommon "country". And doc_man is right too. Consistency is enormously important. What you do for one dependency/territory or whatever, you should also do for another one. And of course this is a tremendous big job and I'm sure at the end everything will be all right. But also, at the end a lot of countries are somewhere under another country, and not much real countries are left. I know Jarek and all the others do everything to make Numista better and more attractive and they have the best intentions and I totally support that. But I think on this matter they overreach themselves. I know you always can find a "country" with the search option. But really, is the world so far gone that an alphabetical index is so old school we don't use that anymore? There is nothing quicker than an alphabetical index to find a coin. But try it for yourself: you have a coin of the Central African Republic and you want to add it. Go to the country list and you'll find it within seconds. Suppose it's hidden somewhere under another country and you want to use the search engine to find it. First of all, you have to type the whole country. If you only type the name partly like "Central Afr" you find nothing at all. If you type "Central African" you even get coins from Belgium with the African Museum, and a lot more: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&r=Central+African&e=&d=&ca=3&no=&i=&v=&m=&a=&t=&dg=&w=&u=&f=&g=&c=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&te=y&cat=y Even if you type the exact country "Central African Republic" you get coins from Cameroon, Central African States, Congo, even Mongolia and Tokelau: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&r=Central+African+Republic&e=&d=&ca=3&no=&i=&v=&m=&a=&t=&dg=&w=&u=&f=&g=&c=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&te=y&cat=y
What a difference with the alphabetical list, I've already added the coin using the alphabetical list before you even find the right country to add the coin to.
And don't get me wrong, I know it's almost impossible to please and do right for everyone. And I'm totally behind the splitting. It's wonderful what you guys are doing with the German States, Italian States, India Princely States and so on. I don't even have a problem at all with putting all those dependencies/territories under another country, because history certainly has an importance. But all this is stuff for the "Numisdoc" compartment, not for the the country list.
So I'm almost begging: give us an alphabetical index with the first and second level countries/issuers and only the third level countries/issuers as a sub-division and add the same time, add a new topic under "Numisdoc" with the new list of all "the countries under countries", but also linked directly to our catalogue like our country list is right now and then I'm sure (almost) everybody would be happy.
My answer will have two points. First is about finding country - just use the search on country list page, simply writing "cen" will give you answer you want.
Second part is about aplhabetical order. Yes, that is simplest form, maybe it would be quite big, but that wont matter much. Our aim is better country list, not more chaotic. That is why there will be options to personalize your country list. That means filtering by some criteria or looking out specific countries (for example all British colonies etc.) One of the options will of course be - show me all. No levels, just every issuer alphabetically.
I guess that together, these two things should be enough to keep most of you happy.
Quote: "derf"The way the countries list is getting, one will have to be a historical geologist PhD with a minor in history and religion ....
I might be stupid, but why make it all so complicated? List these as countries, and these as sub-countries - but exclude the first table. What is not mentioned should be listed as sub-countries. And since no one can (or should) argue against that, the case is closed.
Quote: "Jarcek"I see no point in following Krause. Personalized country list will solve 90% of these issues.
The Krause catalogues are the default standard reference,so it makes sense to follow the Krause approach to construction - considering that the 'KM' catalogue numbers are used in here.
yes, GRØNLAND, is correct! I don't have the Ø on my keyboard although Danish since more than 70 years. In my family name I had to swap the Ø out with OE many, many years ago, since it's only used in Scandinavia. The Germans have the same sound with Ô, ö, but in all the countries I have lived and worked in OE was the simple way out of the question, "Why has the O been barred out?"
Quote: "Sjoelund"Hi,
yes, GRØNLAND, is correct! I don't have the Ø on my keyboard although Danish since more than 70 years. In my family name I had to swap the Ø out with OE many, many years ago, since it's only used in Scandinavia. The Germans have the same sound with Ô, ö, but in all the countries I have lived and worked in OE was the simple way out of the question, "Why has the O been barred out?"
Ole
lol, true. i usually use the phone, where i easily can reach all the special characters. if not, it's easy to just go to the coin page (in this case greenland) and copy-paste the wanted character(s).
yeah, normally ø/ö (same letter) are changed to either oe or simply o, in countries/languages where the letters are not supported (like english). (same goes for ä/æ (same letter) that changes to either ae or simply a.)
