I know that this has been a subject discussed before, but with so many other countries beginning to reduce the amount of equivalent coins or axe them altogether it seems momentum is gathering on Britain to come to the party. Given the head of the Bank of England is the Canadian who oversaw the axe of the 1c it feels like our beloved penny is on borrowed time !
This was brought on by a changechecker email I've just received. Here's the link:
Yes us penny nuts are slowly coming to and end. I think they will all be gone in 15 to 20 years. Remember they did away with the 1/2 penny. It is just time moving forward.
I'm against it.. I want the penny to remain. Us British are very good at retaining our heritage whilst staying in modern times. Maybe the 2p is numbered but I do think the penny will survive for a long time yet.
That being said.. I have kept each UNC example of the penny I can find since Canada did away with their cent.
If it costs more to make/deliver than a penny, then it's time for it to go. I actually think it would be appropriate to get rid of that copper coated steel version; thus, leaving the much more historic silver Maundy penny as the only penny in the UK.
Quote: "Steve27"If it costs more to make/deliver than a penny, then it's time for it to go. I actually think it would be appropriate to get rid of that copper coated steel version; thus, leaving the much more historic silver Maundy penny as the only penny in the UK.
thing is.. the charities will be very hard hit as a result of this !
If following that logic, aka. UK withdrawing the penny, other currencies as US or EU must do the same as of lower value. Like did also the Swiss.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "Steve27"If it costs more to make/deliver than a penny, then it's time for it to go. I actually think it would be appropriate to get rid of that copper coated steel version; thus, leaving the much more historic silver Maundy penny as the only penny in the UK.
thing is.. the charities will be very hard hit as a result of this !
That statement doesn't pass the smell test as far as I'm concerned. It would be just as easy to have a 5 Pence Drive as a Penny Drive, and they would probably raise just as much if not more. It's not as if you can buy much for 5p anymore.
Penny is a huge historical coin and killing it off would be devastating for penny collectors. That aside from the penny being one of the longest denominations of British coinage.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
On Decimal Day, the new penny had equivalent buying power to $0.20 USD (in 2016 values). It has fallen to about 1.3 cents today.
I'm not intimately familiar with British pocket change habits, but in the US, the cent is a completely worthless coin. Cashiers waste time fishing them out of the cash register drawer, then they go into a customer's pocket, and promptly get dumped into a "change jar" at home and eventually cashed in at a CoinStar machine or a bank change counter. They no longer serve any mercantile purpose.
Britain is in much better shape than the US to rationalize their coinage, because they have a 20 pence coin. You could get rid of the 1p, 2p, and 5p and still be able to make change efficiently. With the quarter dollar instead of a 20 cent coin, we are stuck with the 5 cent nickel. If you get rid of that it ends up actually taking more coins to make change (e.g., four dimes to make $0.40 whereas now you can do it with a quarter, a dime, and a nickel).
Quote: "Steve27"If it costs more to make/deliver than a penny, then it's time for it to go. I actually think it would be appropriate to get rid of that copper coated steel version; thus, leaving the much more historic silver Maundy penny as the only penny in the UK.
thing is.. the charities will be very hard hit as a result of this !
I think killing the penny makes perfect sense, though I understand the sentimental value for a coin collector. But think about this: the British penny ─the one currently in circulation─ is a rather recent denomination going back to 1967/71. It is not the same thing as the pre-decimal penny, except in name. As a matter of fact, the official name, after decimalization, was "new penny".
The shilling became the 5 pence, right? Here at least there is a real continuity, and it was intended to be so by the authorities. In this case, and likewise with the florin = 10 new pence and crown = 25 new pence, there is continuity, and I believe the pre-decimal coins continued to circulate after decimalization officially started in 1971.
In Canada, as Peter pointed out, the 1¢ (or "penny") was indeed "killed" in 2012, so that the complete series extends from 1876 to 2012 (+ the provincial cents from 1858 to 1871 ─ and even to 1947 if we include Newfoundland).
A study came out a couple of months ago that recommends the killing of the nickel (5¢) as well. I would agree with that, though I would prefer another (almost utopian) solution: keep it, but save nickel by returning to the pre-1922 diameter and thickness ─ i.e. when it was a very small silver coin!
Quote: "Steve27"If it costs more to make/deliver than a penny, then it's time for it to go. I actually think it would be appropriate to get rid of that copper coated steel version; thus, leaving the much more historic silver Maundy penny as the only penny in the UK.
thing is.. the charities will be very hard hit as a result of this !
That statement doesn't pass the smell test as far as I'm concerned. It would be just as easy to have a 5 Pence Drive as a Penny Drive, and they would probably raise just as much if not more. It's not as if you can buy much for 5p anymore.
Agreed, we've done away with 1, 2 and 5 cent coins over here, and the collection buckets still get a decent rattle going when charities are doing a street collection. I usually chuck a $5 in when the Little Sisters of the Poor are out collecting because they do such good work up in our suburb, that's the same as 500 people donating a penny.
Quote: "Camerinvs"The shilling became the 5 pence, right? Here at least there is a real continuity, and it was intended to be so by the authorities. In this case, and likewise with the florin = 10 new pence and crown = 25 new pence, there is continuity, and I believe the pre-decimal coins continued to circulate after decimalization officially started in 1971.
Till the downsizing in 1990 for 1/- (5p) & 2/- (10p) coins. In the same time, an awkward situation emerges with pre-1990 crowns remaining at 25p and post-1990 crowns at £5, which purpose was already commemorative only.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "chomp-master"Till the downsizing in 1990 for 1/- (5p) & 2/- (10p) coins. In the same time, an awkward situation emerges with pre-1990 crowns remaining at 25p and post-1990 crowns at £5, which purpose was already commemorative only.
Yes, downsizing in the 1990s (not all at the same time, though), and I understand that the remaining pre-decimal coins were "withdrawn" ─ does that mean "demonetized"?
I didn't know about the pre- and post-1990 crowns, but I've just found this page from the Royal Mint to complement your information.
EDIT: By the way, Mark's link at the top of this thread (I mean this one) is very interesting, but on the penny the author has a simplistic view of things:
"The Penny even survived decimalisation in 1971 making it one of the only denominations that was kept during the changeover."
This is actually misleading. Only the name "penny" was kept, not the denomination, and a "new penny" was not the same thing as a "penny". One could argue that the shilling and its multiples survived better for the reason I gave above.
I've never heard of anyone having a penny drive.
what I mean is when you get change in a transaction and say just put it in the charity tin. If I ever donate in a bucket it's usually any loose change. Obviously I know this isn't something the government will care too much about whilst wielding the axe but it's worth noting !
I have heard and did work for penny drives. I think every US home has 2 to 15 dollars in pennys {ok cents} in junk draws and in jars. The oldest one that comes to mind is the penny drive for the statue of liberty base by school kids in the 1890's. I think.
But the UK penny would be sad. They been a standard on the island for 1100 years or so. It is part of the land scape now. But the farling and 1/2 penny are gone. I hope the royal mint never stops making them, They can do like the US does with its 50 cents coin. Still making them but not for circulation. You have to buy from mint, or someone who did.
Most small stores and locally owned shops in the US have a small tray on the counter where people can dump their change instead of putting it into their pocket. So if the next customer has a total of $5.03 he can just hand over a $5 note and three cents from the tray. It's quite a nice custom and one which would surely disappear along with the cent.
I find the worldwide move towards a cashless society to be uncomfortable. In such a world your wealth only exists because a server on the other side of the country says it does. What could possibly go wrong eh? I trust our government about the same as a Bill Cosby mixed drink.
If the rest of the world opts for this route then I will simply return to bartering for my local needs. (junk silver!!) I fully expect that this will become common in most rural areas and the government for sure won't like that. Quite why they feel they have either the need or the right to monitor me every time I buy a dozen eggs is not clear to me. A cashless society sounds great until the day the ATMs shut down or the government decides it needs your money for the greater good. Or they decide that you are a domestic terrorist because of your spending habits.
The cent by all sensible standards should have been withdrawn decades ago but I see it as yet another small barrier to the globalist criminals taking over every facet of our lives. Quite simply, if the Obama regime is for it, then I'm against it on general principle. I hope it remains.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
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Quote: "pnightingale"I find the worldwide move towards a cashless society to be uncomfortable. In such a world your wealth only exists because a server on the other side of the country says it does. What could possibly go wrong eh? I trust our government about the same as a Bill Cosby mixed drink.
The cent by all sensible standards should have been withdrawn decades ago but I see it as yet another small barrier to the globalist criminals taking over every facet of our lives. Quite simply, if the Obama regime is for it, then I'm against it on general principle. I hope it remains.
The Bill Cosby joke -- Ah! Ah! Ah! (or "LOL" if you prefer).
Move towards cashless society: We're basically already there. Well over 99% of most people's money in the West is in "invisible" money ─ a series of numbers at the bank. We withdraw money for our daily needs, and that's about it. Only once in my life did I ever use a $1000 bill ─the "pinky" as it was known─ and it has now been withdrawn because nobody (except shady characters) uses cash for larger transactions.
US cent: There is, I think, one extra hurdle in withdrawing the US cent, and that's the iconic Lincoln figure on the obverse. There will be no place for him in the coinage if the penny is withdrawn. Think of the redesigning of the $20 bill and how it caused quite a controversy because it is sending Jackson on the back of the bill.
Of course the size, denomination and the value of the UK penny have changed over the years but the name has remained a constant in British coinage for well over a thousand years, even before the birth of the Kingdom of England. Whilst there would appear to be a certain inevitability about the penny's demise it would still be a numismatic tragedy.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.
