1983 Canada Small Cent Far Question?

Since 2015, I have been attempting to put together a Canada Small Cent collection. Instead of just collecting the Business Strikes, I decided to also collect all PL, SP, PR, and SMS strikes both by date and major variety types starting in 1953. For 1983, I ran into a roadblock. For the Business Strikes, I was able to buy a nice set of both Far Beads and Near Beads 1983 varieties in nice Gem BU Red (MS). I was using a checklist that I got from another coin collector forum which was made by someone using the Canada Coin guide, the Charlton. Because the Charlton gave a price for both Far Beads and Near Beads in all RCM Strikes when the list was created, the creator of the checklist included Far Beads in MS (Business Strike BU), PL (NBU), SP, and PR. So, the checklist sent me on a wild goose chase trying to locate 1983 Far Beads variety in all RCM strike types. Well, in my determination to buy Far Beads in PL, SP, and PR, I found the task impossible, but informative. As a collector of Canada Small Cents living in the USA, I already did not have local access to most of the coins I wanted to buy. I buy most of the coins online. I also, found there were few books that could help me determine if the checklist was correct or not, and even those that existed where not much help. So, here is what I found out that I believe to be the facts. 

In 1983, the RCM minted two major varieties of Canada Small Cents, Far and Near Beads, using different dies that were different from each other. The difference was on the die and not caused by machinery alterations. The die used to make the Far Beads variety stamped out millions of Business Strike 1983 Small Cents. This die was not used to mint SP or PR Small Cents in 1983, so none should exist in those two strike types. As of now, I have yet to have seen any photographic evidence proving Far Beads exists in SP or PR. So, I deleted Far Beads from those two RCM strike types. However, it has been suggested that Far Beads might exist in PL sets because dies used for Business Strikes were often first used to mint PL strikes. To date, I have not seen any photographic evidence proving the Far Beads variety exist in PL. I have only found Far Beads in MS (Business Strike BU), but I live in the USA and maybe it is more commonly found in Canada. The Canada Price guide has always given a price for Far Beads in PL and SP. The price for Far Beads is always less than the price for Near Beads even though I can't seem to buy a 1983 Far Beads in PL or SP. At this time, I have decided either this is a unicorn with only a few existing in secret collections not being made available to the public or Far Beads only exists in Business Strike. So, I am thinking that all of the 1983 Far Beads variety Small Cents were minted and dumbed into circulation and none of these Small Cents ever got into any of the PL sets. Also, it is unlikely, the Far Beads die was used to mint Small Cents in SP or PR as new dies were often used for these Strike Types that were not used for minting business Strikes. So, my question is do you guys agree with me? Does anyone have any information or photos proving that the Far Beads variety exists in some other RCM strike type other than those coins made for circulation? Either this variety is only available in Canada in PL and SP or the price guide was incorrect for years thus confusing many collectors such as myself. Any input would be welcome, thank you. 

Greetings, @pennyhunter.   It looks like you're brought up this same topic at least 4 times on Numista before:

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic65362.html#p528993

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic66011.html#p534119

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic58903.html#p485254

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic58729.html#p483898

I do see some catalog listings on the CoinsAndCanada website:

https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-prices.php?canadian_coins=1-cent-1965-1989&issue=1

But it isn't clear to me if there are actually any graded examples of the “Far Beads” variety in PL, SP, or PR finish.  I can't find any graded examples by American TPG's (Third Party Grading companies) with this ultra specific requirement.

My humble recommendation would be for you to contact one (or both) of the Canadian grading companies below and ask them if they have ever graded/certified any such examples of the “Far Beads” variety in PL, SP, or PR finish:

• ICCS (International Coin Certification Service):  https://iccscoin.ca
• CCCS (Canadian Coin Certification Service): https://cccs.co

Good luck.

Tony,

I just sent a message to CCCS. The other grading company does not seem to have an email address, but only a phone number. I might try calling them sometime next week. 

Yes, the prices on all the price guides for Canadian coins for Far Beads are cheap. This suggests to me that it must be very common in PL and SP, but I have not been able to buy one from anyone, not have I ever seen one in any photos that was not a Business Strike or Circulation Strike. Members have told me that the dies used to make PL strikes are often used to also make Business Strikes, but different dies are used for minting SP and Proof coins especially for a more modern date like 1983. So, I must assume the variety could exist in PL sets, but is it an underpriced unicorn or have I just been extremely unlucky? 

If you know it exists and is common in PL, then could you connect me to someone who can sell it to me? I tried to buy from large Canada coin dealers online who had 1983 Small Cents in Pl listed as Far Beads, but when I got the coins they were Near Beads incorrectly marked as Far Beads. Like I have posted over and over again, I have both varieties in Business Strike in nice Gem BU Red, so it is easy to tell them apart side by side. I can place any 1983 Canada Small Cent in the middle of these two coins and compare it to them to determine which variety it matches easily. I even purchased lots of several 1983 Canada Small Cents from PL sets and was not able to get a single Far Beads from any of those purchases. Some coin dealers on eBay refused to check their stocks even when I offered $20 plus shipping for the coin. I have a nearly completed set, but I have been forced not to include some of the most expensive rarities such as 1954 NSF in PL and the 2005-P (Non-Magnetic), which is selling on eBay for over $2,000. So, if it turns out to be an expensive rarity, I would have to pass on it, but at this point I just do not know if it exists or not outside of the Business Strike finish. I have had conversations with Canada coin dealers and those who were friendly told me it probably only exists in Business Strike. One larger dealer told me flat out it only exists in Business Strike because he also hunted for it for years with no results. However, one person on another forum who is one of their founders swore to me he had Far Beads in both PL and SP and said it was in sets at a rare of 7:1000 for PL and 6:1000 in SP. He also said it did not exist in Proof. 

I live in the USA where we collect all the Business Strikes and the Proofs, plus the SMS and even the Satin Finishes only found in the 2000s in mint sets. I got the idea of collecting Canada Small Cents in every RCM finish from how we collect US pennies. Because of rarity and price, I started my PL set from 1953. I found a 1953 in PL at a coin show for $1, and that was how I decided to start with that date. My 1954 to 1964 in PL are PCGS graded and cost between $10 and $40 each. I also purchased huge lots of Canada Small Small Cents for the Proofs and Specimen Strikes. This was the cheapest way to fill all those common date holes. So, at this point the collection is pretty large. I have 1920 to 1930 in VF to BU. I have 1931 to 2012 in BU. I also have 1981 to 2012 for the Proof strikes and all Commemorative coins. I think the 2018 Commemorative is Proof. I have all the PL Strikes from 1953 to 2012 except maybe the 1983 Far Beads. I might also need a 1965 Point 5 & Small Beads variety, that is another question mark on my list that I have not found for sale. I have all the Specimen Strikes from 1967, 1971 to 2012. I almost got the 1970 SP set when I found one for just $500, but I decided to pass in hopes of getting one graded and identified by PCGS. However, the price for that coin has gone up so much, I might not be willing to buy it now. I started in 2015 on the set, and invested a lot of time looking for the best deals to put the set together at a price I could manage without the wife tossing me in the streets. Maybe, I will buy the more expensive coins in the future, but for now I am just trying to complete the set with all the affordable dates and varieties. I have also started a new set for all the error Canada Small Cents that are commonly collected like the hangers, double dates, and others listed on another forum. I am currently looking for the 1965 extra Bud. I have found some of these errors in PL, like the hangers, which is why I think the 1983 Far Beads variety could possibly exist in PL, even though I am about ready to give up on it. 

Yes, I have been trying to find information on Canada Small Cents. I purchased a Canada Small Cents error guide book from eBay, but the book did not identify in what RCM strike the errors were found in or how rare they were. An American dealer sold me a huge bag of errors, mostly in circulated condition for $10, and I have found several of the coins listed in the book. At this point, I might have the largest and most complete Canada Small Cent ever assembled or not. It has been very difficult to find books that only cover Canada Small Cents, and even more difficult to find information. Most of the eBay dealers claim they are not experts and none of my local dealers have my knowledge from attempting to put this set together. 

Thank you for your suggestion and reminding me I have already asked this question before. And if you know any super experts for Canada Small Cents who would love to talk to me, send them my way. Maybe they can confirm some of the checkboxes on my checklist or help me delete any that do not exist. 

Happy Halloween and thanks again. 

Thanks for the reply.  It's a long response, so I'll try to reply to the parts that I can:

1.  I did a Google search, and the email address for ICCS appears to be:  info@iccs.ca

   I'm not sure why their email address isn't listed on their website.  I've talked with them on the phone before and they've told me that their records are all paper-based.  They don't have a database.  So don't be surprised if it takes them a while before they can get back to you.

2.  What's curious to me is that even the Registry Set guys over at PCGS don't have this specific variety in their collection.  I've looked.  Those guys are hard core collectors and they don't even have it.  So it may be that the variety does exist and there simply isn't enough collector interest in it at this time to motivate people to pay (more money in grading fees than what the coin itself is worth) to get it certified.

3.  Most of the dealers I know are located here in the U.S. instead of Canada.  Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who currently has this specific variety.  There are lots of Canadian coin collectors on Numista.  If one of them has an idea on how to source this specific variety, maybe they can provide some helpful information.

Happy Halloween,
Tony