Tetradrachm Alexandria Provincial

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5.80 g. - 20.51 mm

 

It seems easy but I cannot find it and I looked for hours. I probably used a wrong keyword and I am looking where there is nothing to find.

The young faces seem to point at Elagabal, Geta or Alexander Severus… Please help me, this one makes me crazy.

You've posted the same request three times in the last few hours. People will answer you on one post eventually, theres no need for this many duplicates

 To that end I already deleted the first two 

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins

I think Oceans75 had some logistical problems because one of his replies in another thread repeated itself after several hours, and maybe twice.

 

I think in the present case there is just enough remaining of the obverse legend to help with the ID:

 

 

I'll try later when I have time. Hopefully in the meantime someone will ID it.

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

That would be great if you could read this.

It's not at all easy to read, but however hard I try, I can't see this as Greek. It's more likely Latin.

 

On top of it, in Alexandria (and elsewhere) almost all imperial titles in Greek end with CEB = Σεβαστός and that's definitely not what we have here.

 

Note, too, that on the reverse (?), if from Alexandria, one expects the regnal year, i.e. the symbol L followed by a Greek letter. As for the portrait on that side, I think it's a god rather than a human. So possibly the patron deity of a Greek city.

 

Any good arguments to think it's from Alexandria? Would you reconsider this attribution?

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

It just looks like many tetradrachms from Alexandria. But since it is not identified, it could be from another city too.

Personally, I believe it is written in greek especially with a billon coin like that. 

Is it Apollo on the reverse? 

I went through RPC looking for tetradrachm Alexander Severus/Caracalla/Geta/Elagabal and Gordian III, and I could not find this type.

As for the year, it is not always there at Alexandria, even though it is almost always there. This color and types seem to fit with Alexandria. Where else? Antioch does not have this nature of coin.

The year does not seem to be erased/used… it seems to be absent and there is room to show it.

Yes — I was thinking of Apollo as well.

 

I would abandon the Alexandria hypothesis for the time being since there are too many oddities so far: unusual legend (no CEB) + no date + two-headed type (which I couldn't find for Alexandria).

 

If it's a provincial coin, eastern or western, I would not exclude Augustus on the inscribed side, or perhaps another Julio-Claudian. There are two-headed (emperor + deity) provincial coins in that period.

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

I thank you for your interest and your help…

I agree that it is far from obvious that this coin is from Alexandria. But the low silver allow, grey color, size and style look like Alexandria…

I am not sure we will be able to read anything. AT best we will be able to check that a text matches, if we have a candidate.

I am intrigued by the reverse. I believe it is a god. He is good looking and makes me feel like Apollo, but it could be Dionysus with such headband. Is it a taenia? It does not seem to be common to wear such a band.

I just tried both Apollo and Dionysus in Wildwinds for all the Julio-Claudians, Commodus (whose young bust is similar) and all the Severans including Macrinus. Nothing. Not sure what one can do next.

 

If not Apollo nor Dionysus, could it be Hermes or Hercules/Herakles?? I wouldn't think so — and certainly not Helios.

 

In my search I saw a few double-headed Alexandrian coins, but none that matched.

 

In French, as you know, we say “Deux têtes valent mieux qu'une.” Not so sure any longer about this…

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

Hi, it's a roman provincial, Hispania TVRIASO

Obverse Augustus,  reverse female head

Ref : RPC I 404

 

https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/1/404 

Interestingly, I thought Hispania was a possibility, but with this ID I don't see how the legends match.

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

The comparison is intriguing—the types are extremely close, which is encouraging. However, the retrograde legend IMP AVGVSTVS does not appear on my piece. On the obverse, the legend may simply be off the flan. In addition, the fabric looks like low-silver billon rather than a copper-based alloy. The surfaces seem cast rather than struck—unusual for Alexandrian issues, which are normally struck.

Here is a new photo with a better capacity to read the legend…. Thanks for your help.

I'm just reuploading the image upside down to look at the legend full resolution (in a new tab).

 

 

EDIT — The patina, white corrosion, and surface “fissures” suggests to me it's neither copper/bronze nor silver/billon. Could it be a tessera made of pewter or a lead-based alloy??

₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.

The color is weird on the previous picture. The real color is shiny grey and it looks exactly like the other tetradrachms from Alexandria I have. It comes from a large collection of tetradrachms from Alexandria only, which does not prove anything of course.

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