Moving Bohemia under Czech Republic

Hi,

i was wonder why Bohemia is in the main catalog, shouldn't be under Czech Republic ? Czechoslovakia ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia

Bohemia was a duchy of Great Moravia, later an independent principality, a kingdom in the Holy Roman Empire, and subsequently a part of the Habsburg monarchy and the Austrian Empire.^[5] After World War I and the establishment of an independent Czechoslovak state, the whole of Bohemia became a part of Czechoslovakia, defying claims of the German-speaking inhabitants that regions with German-speaking majority should be included in the Republic of German-Austria. Between 1938 and 1945, these border regions were annexed to Nazi Germany as the Sudetenland.^[6]

The remainder of Czech territory became the Second Czechoslovak Republic, and was subsequently occupied as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia until the end of World War II, after which Bohemia became part of the restored Czechoslovakia. In 1969, the Czech lands (including Bohemia) were given autonomy within Czechoslovakia as the Czech Socialist Republic. In 1990, the name was changed to the Czech Republic, which became a separate state in 1993 with the breakup of Czechoslovakia.^[6]

If Bohemia are called later Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and PoBaM is under Czech republic dont you think that Bohemia should be under Czech Republic ?

Regards,

Damian

Because under current logic, it lacks historical continuity with Czechoslovakia or Czech Republic, and its territorry was different.

This might change as we will probably rethink country list in 2024.

Jarcek

Because under current logic, it lacks historical continuity with Czechoslovakia or Czech Republic, and its territorry was different.

 

This might change as we will probably rethink country list in 2024.

So Wikipedia is wrong ? Bohemia is not Czech Rep ? Bohemia (green) in relation to the current regions of the Czech Republic

and according to Wikepdia Kingdom of Bohemia was a succeeded by Czechoslovak Republic

and one more question First Was Czechoslovakia then was Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and then 3rd Czechoslovakia, so why Protectorate is under Czech and not under Czechoslovakia ? cant see here an logic. Maybe im missing something ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Czechoslovakia

No, Kingdom of Bohemia is not Czech Republic. I just closed this because we will be discussing and possibly rethinking whole logic for country list placement, so these kind of movements are on hold.

Jarcek

No, Kingdom of Bohemia is not Czech Republic. I just closed this because we will be discussing and possibly rethinking whole logic for country list placement, so these kind of movements are on hold.

Dear Jarek, 

ok understood Bohemia is not Kingdom of Bohemia. Were they both independent ?

Anyway, about rethinking. I don't believe you and that was one of the reasons I resigned as a Polish referee. I remember our conversation about Silesia 3-4 years ago. You promised that you would do something about it and agreed that Silesia would be under Bohemia only for a while. Nothing has changed since then. You mentioned recently that this is a hot topic right now. And you rejected my request to work on this topic. I have the impression that you are patronizing when it comes to the Bohemia and Silesia. On the occasion of the New Year, I wish you much success and that you keep your words. Time will tell, all the best.

Yes, I rejected it, because this is exactly why this has to be thought about.

We keep coming with threads for moving this or that, based on whatever preferences and once we do move something, people rightfully mention that something else either does not work under that condition or it is not upheld for some other issuer.

We need a strategy first.

Regarding Bohemia, right now we have it listed historically - everything that was part of Kingdom of Bohemia is listed together.

Thank you for your reply, you know that City of Stargard and City of Koszalin is now part of Poland ?  and should be moved under Polish States in the same way as City of Drosen were put under Poland ? As well as 90% of Silesian cities..

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. Now it is sorted by one principle, and you want it sorted by another principle. 

Jarcek

Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. Now it is sorted by one principle, and you want it sorted by another principle. 

What i expect is consistency. Drossen City never should be under Poland but it is. Why ? because now is part of  Poland. Mentioned cities below are also now part of Poland. Where we can find them ? Not under Poland… 

IMHO lack of consistency. No exceptions. One way or another. We move all or none.

Great, so we want the same thing.

Jarcek

Great, so we want the same thing.

Really ? So why You ( numista team) moved Drossen city under Poland ?   In my opinion this move was great example of lack of consistency. 

If you really want consistency you ( numista team) would never accept  placing Drossen city under Polish State.

Yes, it is another exampe of a place which, for its early numismatic history was NOT a part of Poland, but because of modern history events is now in Poland (as with Pomerania, Silesia, etc.).  

So, indeed it is inconsistent, and we could move it now, or just leave it where it is until we have a plan for addressing the broader issue.    

Lets be precise: Drossen was not moved, but when I created it I attached it to Poland, as I thought it was our recognized guideline to attach Cities under their current country. Because it is how the catalogue was structured for France and Germany when I became a referee, so I was biased but in good faith, I didnt know there was other principles existing in other parts of the catalogue.

We can move it if it helps restore a consitency in that part of the catalogue until we reach an alignment concerning this issuer hierarchy topic :-)

We already had this discussion here I believe.

tdziemia

Yes, it is another exampe of a place which, for its early numismatic history was NOT a part of Poland, but because of modern history events is now in Poland (as with Pomerania, Silesia, etc.).  

 

So, indeed it is inconsistent, and we could move it now, or just leave it where it is until we have a plan for addressing the broader issue.    

 

I'm glad we agree. It's a pity it's so late.Since the beginning i was telling you this. While still a referee of Poland, I objected to placing Drossen under Poland, and yet it was thrown there. Which resulted in my resignation from being as a referee.

You will do what will do, its up to you. In my opinion Drossen placed under Poland is wrong. Same as placing Silesia under Poland or Pomerania. In Poland we have category: coins related to Poland (PLC) and there we placed Silesia, Pomerania, Livonia, Courland, Moldavia and Wallachia, Kievan Rus,  Royal Prussia or Polish Prussia etc