ID help with Italian state coin

Hello, I got this coin in a package full of Italian state coins but can't ID it.

It's 21-22mm in diameter.

I don't have a precise scale to and the one I have doesn't pick it up :/

The readable Lettering  is “PAVL US ***TVS” so I guess it says “Pavlus Sanctvs”, that's at least my guess. All the similar coins have the lettering the other way around saying Sanctvs Pavlus instead and the bit of the reverse that's visible doesn't line up at all.

Thanks for the help :)

Can't see much but there is a bunch here maybe that can help you

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=pavlvs+quattrino&category=1-2&lot=&date_from=&date_to=&thesaurus=1&images=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1¤cy=usd&order=0

Geison

Can't see much but there is a bunch here maybe that can help you

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=pavlvs+quattrino&category=1-2&lot=&date_from=&date_to=&thesaurus=1&images=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1¤cy=usd&order=0

I couldn't find one in there either :/ 

But thank you :) 

I was thinking papal states as well (makes the most sense to me)

It's quite a bummer that we can't see anything useful on the reverse other than the letters  “OR” 

Sanctvs Pavlvs…maybe one of Gregorivs?…XV?

Looks like this one, but the picture it's upside down and the legend it's SANCTVS PAVLVS.

N#7410

Andy289

Looks like this one, but the picture it's upside down and the legend it's SANCTVS PAVLVS.

N#7410

I'm pretty sure it's not this one. The lettering is different on both sides even if you rotate it (for example my one doesn't have the “AP” after Paulus and the reverse letters “OR” aren't on your coin either)

I'm also very sure that my coin in not upside down cause you can pretty clearly see the Face, the sword he holds in front of him and the Book he holds in his right that splits the lettering of “Pavl us” in half (which is missing on your coin as well)

The pose is also known on some other coins.

It's even more visible on this angled picture:

Still thank you for you assistance :)

Yes, it's a better angle with clear details. I'll look around for a match.

Paul was the patron saint of Gubbio, and figures on many of their coins, so this is the best guess.  If someone wants to go through CNI, they will find all the varieties, and maybe find a match.

Paul was also the patron saint of Munster, Germany, and there are some coins of the 17th and 18th century with Paul standing, but I have not found a match there either.

luca biondi

Sanctvs Pavlvs…maybe one of Gregorivs?…XV?

This seemed like a good possibility, but Gubbio did not strike coins under a Pope Gregory.  

I checked Numista and acsearch for a quattrino from other places under a Gregory and with Saint Paul, but did not find any.

Since SANTVS PAVLVS AP is indeed the typical inscription on a Gubbio quattrino, here is a possibility.  In the reigns of Innocent X (1646-1655) and Alessandro VII (1655-1667), some Gubbio quattrinos were struck OVER other coins, such as French double tournois.  CNI mentions examples (CNI XIV, p. 44) of quattrinos where the previous lettering of 1638 double tournois is visible on the obverse (the coat of arms side, … 38 + DOVBLE TOVRN …).

There was at least one type of 1638 double tournois struck with the spelling TORNOIS:  N#52202.  So I wonder if this is a Gubbio quattrino of Innocent X struck over a French double tournois?   

I've been looking but haven't found anything either.  The size of the lettering is what's throwing me off.

I am inclined to believe that the split between SANCTVS and PAVLVS is at the top of the coin, with the saint's head between the two words.
The break in PAVL  VS may be from a sword angled down to the right.

I also feel that that side of the coin is the reverse.  The obverse would have either a Pope or the Papal Arms.

tdziemia

luca biondi

Sanctvs Pavlvs…maybe one of Gregorivs?…XV?

This seemed like a good possibility, but Gubbio did not strike coins under a Pope Gregory.  

 

I checked Numista and acsearch for a quattrino from other places under a Gregory and with Saint Paul, but did not find any.

 

Since SANTVS PAVLVS AP is indeed the typical inscription on a Gubbio quattrino, here is a possibility.  In the reigns of Innocent X (1646-1655) and Alessandro VII (1655-1667), some Gubbio quattrinos were struck OVER other coins, such as French double tournois.  CNI mentions examples (CNI XIV, p. 44) of quattrinos where the previous lettering of 1638 double tournois is visible on the obverse (the coat of arms side, … 38 + DOVBLE TOVRN …).

 

There was at least one type of 1638 double tournois struck with the spelling TORNOIS:  N#52202.  So I wonder if this is a Gubbio quattrino of Innocent X struck over a French double tournois?   

I had the fear that it might be an overstrike too, which would make identification near impossible. 

That could explain why everything on the other side of the coin looks so weird and not like a COA of the papal states for example.

I'm also pretty sure that whatever this coin is either not on numsita, or the entry of the numista site has some huge gaps. I tried every possible letter combination for the “Pavlus” part without any other criteria. I looked through possibly over 100 sites to check and none matched. So the coin is probably not here or the site does not contain the lettering, which might further indicate it being an overstrike. 

glorkar

I've been looking but haven't found anything either.  The size of the lettering is what's throwing me off.

I am inclined to believe that the split between SANCTVS and PAVLVS is at the top of the coin, with the saint's head between the two words.
The break in PAVL  VS may be from a sword angled down to the right.

I also feel that that side of the coin is the reverse.  The obverse would have either a Pope or the Papal Arms.

I thought that I might hold the coin in the wrong direction too. But there is so much hinting at the coin being rotated the way I showed it.

It's hard to show everything in pictures, I can obviously see more of the coin and surface than you can on the picture, depending on how I hold it. 

I am pretty sure I hold the coin the right way up 

BUT just because I'm sure doesn't mean it's correct, so maybe I'm just dumb.

I'll add more ans better pics of my coin to this comment.

I also think he holds a book in his right hand that splits the “Pavl us”.

This coin is the closest to the position just mirrored:

Here are more pictures of my coin. And you can really see his face, and the similarities between my and the coin I showed you. It's just the other way around and different lettering. You can see that the book is the same thing that he holds in my coin to split the lettering

You should try to take better obverse pictures, with different light, orientation and angle.