I think there should be added another currencies for Bulgaria - Cash Bonds, Fixed Term Cash Bonds, Treasury Bonds and Thrace Internationale. There are a lot of bonds mixed with the regular banknotes, which is a bit confusing.
Unless we have evidence that these bonds circulated as ordinary money, they ought to be moved to exonumia. If they were ordinary money, then they belong with the other notes. To help distinguish them, we can modify the titles and add the issuing banks.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
SCWPM lists these treasury bonds in its General volume, and they may well have circulated as currency.
Bulgaria was complicated in its currency from around 1914 to 1947, and relied somewhat on foreign loans to back its currency. It was unsuccessful in maintaining itself on the gold standard.
Some research on these bonds by the referee on Bulgaria might be in order.
SCWPM lists these treasury bonds in its General volume, and they may well have circulated as currency.
Bulgaria was complicated in its currency from around 1914 to 1947, and relied somewhat on foreign loans to back its currency. It was unsuccessful in maintaining itself on the gold standard.
Some research on these bonds by the referee on Bulgaria might be in order.
Indeed they were used as a currency for a short time after WW1 and WW2, but still they are distinguished from regular paper money. You can see how banknote.ws has split Bulgarian banknotes into several sections - http://banknote.ws/COLLECTION/countries/EUR/BUL/BUL.htm
The problem is that “Circulating Bonds” isn't a currency. I know some countries currently have separate “currencies” for issues the referees don't want included in the main section ("French Treasure Notes" being the most obvious example) but it simply isn't accurate. If these "bonds" were regular currency, that's where they belong. That said, I'd be cautious of trusting SCWPM without corroboration.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
I'd be cautious of trusting SCWPM without corroboration.
I didn't. I looked it up on the Bulgarian Central Bank website and on jstor.
I also have a bit of background on it from collecting Romanian notes - you tend to look at the neighbouring countries. There were some currency problems during the hyperinflation.
I agree, scwpm can be hit and miss - it depends on which countries got the editorial attention each time it was being revised.
If I understand well, it was still the same currency but another item type different than banknote, right?
It is more a request of creating “circulating bond” as item category?
Let's see if we can make the category a bit broader to cover other, similar issues. We've discussed in the past having a note type “Emergency Issue”. Perhaps this would fit here too?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Here is an example of a Fenian Bond, issued in the US to raise funds for Irish rebels in the 1860s N#214492
Although it looks like a currency note, it never circulated as a currency, and was not printed as such.
Please let me know if you propose to remove it from numista on the grounds of its being a bond, as I am intending to upload better images for this listing, and to add other denominations with images.
Here is an example of a Fenian Bond, issued in the US to raise funds for Irish rebels in the 1860s N#214492
Although it looks like a currency note, it never circulated as a currency, and was not printed as such.
Please let me know if you propose to remove it from numista on the grounds of its being a bond, as I am intending to upload better images for this listing, and to add other denominations with images.
Indeed it seems outside Numista scope as Xavier explained me earlier
To delete or to not delete, that is the question, whether tis nobler in the mind to wield the doctrinal delete button, or to let stand an entry that offends...
Here is an example of a Fenian Bond, issued in the US to raise funds for Irish rebels in the 1860s N#214492
Although it looks like a currency note, it never circulated as a currency, and was not printed as such.
Please let me know if you propose to remove it from numista on the grounds of its being a bond, as I am intending to upload better images for this listing, and to add other denominations with images.
Indeed it seems outside Numista scope as Xavier explained me earlier
No it's not, we have discussed that before. Also read the whole topic carefully. Don't delete anything, it's how it's supposed to be.
I am not at all asking for it to be deleted. I would be against it, as I am against the exclusion of bonds which circulated as currency.
I am merely inquiring as to whether or not my intended expansion of the entry and addition of other such items would be of value - I just scanned my examples a few days ago. Is it worth my while spending time preparing the entries for the Fenian Bonds, I wonder…
I am not at all asking for it to be deleted. I would be against it, as I am against the exclusion of bonds which circulated as currency.
I am merely inquiring as to whether or not my intended expansion of the entry and addition of other such items would be of value - I just scanned my examples a few days ago. Is it worth my while spending time preparing the entries for the Fenian Bonds, I wonder…
There is to be a limit in Exonumia which could become wild quite fast. Every choice has impacts, in any direction :-)
But I personnally have not much knowledge here, so I'll let teamates explain :-)
I am not at all asking for it to be deleted. I would be against it, as I am against the exclusion of bonds which circulated as currency.
I am merely inquiring as to whether or not my intended expansion of the entry and addition of other such items would be of value - I just scanned my examples a few days ago. Is it worth my while spending time preparing the entries for the Fenian Bonds, I wonder…
There is to be a limit in Exonumia which could become wild quite fast. Every choice has impacts, in any direction :-)
But I personnally have not much knowledge here, so I'll let teamates explain :-)
As I said Compendium, leave it as it is. They were used as regular money during WW2.
Application of doctrine for its own sake is not necessarily a good way to go. Each case should be taken on its own merits.
I would make a case for having the Bulgarian bonds which circulated as currency, and for having Fenian Bonds on numista because neither fall into the category of ‘normal bonds’.
What is collected and why matters, as does actual usage. A bond used as currency is currency - cannot be argued against. It is either currency or it is not.
Apologies for the confusion, as there we had some misunderstanding with Compendium yesterday.
These are clearly not same type of bonds/shares that we defined as out of scope in the past.
Company bonds are out of scope of Numista
The Bulgarian bonds illustrated in the first message do look like banknotes and, as far as I understand from this thread, they did circulate like regular currency.
I believe ceh2019 mentioned the best way to handle them on Numista:
ceh2019
Unless we have evidence that these bonds circulated as ordinary money, they ought to be moved to exonumia. If they were ordinary money, then they belong with the other notes. To help distinguish them, we can modify the titles and add the issuing banks.
Apologies for the confusion, as there we had some misunderstanding with Compendium yesterday.
These are clearly not same type of bonds/shares that we defined as out of scope in the past.
Company bonds are out of scope of Numista
The Bulgarian bonds illustrated in the first message do look like banknotes and, as far as I understand from this thread, they did circulate like regular currency.
I believe ceh2019 mentioned the best way to handle them on Numista:
ceh2019
Unless we have evidence that these bonds circulated as ordinary money, they ought to be moved to exonumia. If they were ordinary money, then they belong with the other notes. To help distinguish them, we can modify the titles and add the issuing banks.
I will take a closer look at all of them and will fill some missing information. Any suggestions how titles should look like ? Something like 5,000 leva (Emergency Bond) ?
