question about token USA about 1913-14 or sooner

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hello,i m looking for token trade(rockfeller companies-coal mines)about 1913 at ludlow -trinidad..does anybody knows if someone sales or maybe photo?we have here in numista?


is the other name of this token script?
What an impressive story !
Referee of south atlantic islands
Quote: "Frenchlover"​What an impressive story !
​to be honest thats the reason i m looking for these tokens..but i don t know how to search..i wrote all the key words but i can t find which tokens they used then
Did you ever hear about such tokens ?
Referee of south atlantic islands
Quote: "Frenchlover"​Did you ever hear about such tokens ?
​i saw a documentary and they said about it..the rockfeller companies made profits from the coal mines and they gave some tokens instead of money to the workers and they used only tokens to sallons or grossery that was rockfellers property..8.
anyone?
I hoped someone more knowledgeable than myself would speak up. I live in Colorado and collect wage/merchant tokens and do a bit of side research on topics of interest to me; I have not put any serious effort into collecting specifically Colorado tokens as yet, however.

Personally I would be surprised if you ever found Ludlow tokens or scrip for sale, you'd probably be lucky to find photos of it or an exhibit of it in a local museum. Unlike West Virginia coal mine tokens which were used through the mid-20th c. and are relatively plentiful for collectors today, Colorado scrip went out of style in the early 20th c. for reasons the article Frenchlover links pretty well explains and is much less commonly available, though "common" pieces are affordable simply because few people bother to collect tokens.

Ludlow and the Coalfield War were important moments in Colorado history, and items attached to them would attract considerable interest from collectors. While I speculate on this, I cannot imagine CF&I kept any Ludlow scrip after what happened, and the miners themselves took a generally destructive approach to mine-related things at that time. Any tokens that survived would, logically, probably be family heirlooms of those miners who kept one as a keepsake - and probably not many did. If they exist, I would guess they exist in museums or family safes, or if on the market, up for auction for thousands of US$. Here is an auction for a Colorado territorial banknote from Colorado Springs, amazing and beautiful, with a price realized that speaks for itself. I realize that's not a direct comparison to mine scrip, but keep in mind the history connection I mentioned above.

Have you seen anything mentioning that examples of these tokens still exist? It is a well documented fact that scrip was in use at CF&I camps, but it may also be the case that none has survived. Personally I would be highly enthused and impressed to see a photo of such tokens. But if you find anything like that for sale, there's more than one, and it costs less than a sports car, let me know. It's always possible that a hoard of them survived uncirculated in a crate in the back of a warehouse somewhere and they're on the market for less than I would imagine and I just haven't seen one.

A final note on scrip in general - scrip, wage tokens, chits, etc, were used in various forms around the world and in various capacities. Less exploitative (in theory) usage was often made by militaries, who would pay soldiers in scrip in the field, allowing them to buy necessities without the army carrying around a bunch of real money to be potentially looted or fought over, as well as exercising control by making illicit use of the money more difficult. Private employers sometimes did the same, but when it's a for-profit business rather than a state military, it's easy to guess that many if not most chose to take with both hands, paying their employees with scrip that could only be spent in the employer's stores and controlling/inflating prices, along with making them live in housing owned by the employer as well. Since workers were not paid in real money, they couldn't even save up to leave camp and go somewhere else, the scrip was worthless elsewhere. If you're thinking this sounds disturbingly close to slavery, that's what the miners thought too, and it's why workers now get paid in real money by law.

Also, thank you for bringing my wonderful state's history to attention!
i bought a book about louis tikas ''Buried Unsung'' and i wanted a token from this period (i will try to find similar ,help me if you can)to make a comparison with todays coupons ,electronic money and other which is not so different in my opinion...i had this in my mind that it will be difficult to find it but i just wanted some photos and i see its not possible..

Thank you my friend for reply..write anything else you know..
Quote: "esterhazi"​i bought a book about louis tikas ''Buried Unsung'' and i wanted a token from this period (i will try to find similar ,help me if you can)to make a comparison with todays coupons ,electronic money and other which is not so different in my opinion...i had this in my mind that it will be difficult to find it but i just wanted some photos and i see its not possible..

​Thank you my friend for reply..write anything else you know..
​I wish you a nice day and good health.

You don't even know how I support you in your endeavors. Nice story and I wish you could find the token.

I haven't solved the opposite problem, I have a token and I can't find a story for it and also from the coal mine and also from this period of history only on the opposite side of the globe.
I think it served as a voucher for a grocery store -employee shop of flour and goods.
( Seesaidtl---- It is a defunct village in the Czech Republic called Ervěnice -and the Czech Republic in this period belonged to Austria-Hungary), the Britain is a mistake the company named and resided but the token was probably made here
Excuse me, colleague, this is your link -yet who will provide me with information about my token and find his story of how and why it originated will receive from me the real Prague groschen of Wenceslas IV y.1400

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces103320.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=seestadtl&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ927CZ927&sxsrf=ALeKk00eu7WvX_a_0Hkdd-yvY2qebYv-bg:1614778246870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVra7enZTvAhXwsosKHcU0DRIQ_AUoAXoECAUQAw&biw=1093&bih=500

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erv%C4%9Bnice

Sorry, but they are the same Tokens and probably served the same purpose.
Hi and good luck.
Ivan
Yes Ivan maybe i will try to find similar..i saw that any good and old token is expensive..i think i will need 20-30 euros for similar..the one you update here in numista is very good...
Quote: "esterhazi"​Yes Ivan maybe i will try to find similar..i saw that any good and old token is expensive..i think i will need 20-30 euros for similar..the one you update here in numista is very good...
I wish you a pleasant evening.

I did not find any information about this token -not even the mining museum knows . I got it many years ago from a treasure hunter and an antique shop in a pile of other 19th century coins -it was with the demolition of the house. I don't know there is another same, and I did not find in historical materials of the ,,Robert,, coal mine Then the ,,Ján Šverma,,mine to today a company ,,Mostecká uhelná,, .

That's why I offer a reward for finding information , I will give the silver Prague groschen,, Wenceslas IV,,- to someone who finds the same token.

I think these tokens have something in common ? And thank you for the oponetura.
Hi Ivan
From what I've dug up, here are some options for feasibly collectable tokens:

http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_forms.php?action=DisplayTokenRecord&td_id=404401

Here is TC's only token labelled as CF&I. Seems like it's probably an advertising token since there's not even a vague denomination on it, but I have no info. Even searching for Colorado Field Fence basically turns up what you can already guess about the company - they made barbed wire in the early 20th c.

http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_forms.php?action=DisplayTokenRecord&td_id=308743

However, CF&I also ran stores by the name of Colorado Supply Company, and I believe their scrip and tokens sometimes go on the market at prices a regular collector might consider. TC lists three such tokens but none have photos, I would assume the Guide to Colorado Merchant Trade Tokens by Pritchard has more but I have not obtained this book. What's interesting to note about this specific example is that the token inscription specifies that it's good at any company store except the one in Trinidad, which is quite close to where Ludlow was. Your guess is as good as mine why scrip was issued good for every store but one; presumably Trinidad had its own scrip (maybe shared with Ludlow?).

https://scalar.usc.edu/works/the-colorado-fuel-and-iron-company/the-colorado-supply-store-in-colorado-fuel--irons-mining-camps

This is good reading, well researched info on scrip use by CF&I and an image of paper scrip.

As well, thank you for the book recommendation, now I think I may read it myself, state and local history always interests me!
it looks like there is a shame for this story not for colorado but for the economical system itself..don t wonder why they didn t make a film about this story..the only reason to make movie about it is to change the story and will show some persons(not rockfeller family and parliament) that made some ''mistakes''


but its strange we cant find even a photo of the tokens at ludlow..this banknote stops 2 years before the strike i think..
Well, you've gotten me hooked in this since it lies at the intersection of several of my interests. The first thing I am trying to figure out is exactly what scrip was used in Ludlow to begin with; both paper and metal token scrip was in use in Colorado, examples here, here, and here, and as described above, Colorado Fuel & Iron ran stores named Colorado Supply Stores so it could be labelled either way. Further, Las Animas County (the locality in which Ludlow is located) had, at a minimum, CF&I camps or stores in Trinidad, Ludlow, and Tercio, and maybe more besides given how small the towns really were. As well, it is not clear to me yet whether CF&I used separately marked scrip at every camp or if there was overlapping usage between camps; West Virginia tokens are usually only good at one camp but some clues so far suggest CF&I may not have done this. This is by far the best chance that scrip identical to what was used at Ludlow at the time of the massacre would still exist and be available for purchase.

Here is a downloadable PDF that contains a scholarly article (145 pages) on the camp at Tercio, very close to Trinidad and Ludlow. I have only glanced at it so far but I will read it carefully when I have time to see if additional information can be found about what kind of scrip exactly was in use, or even just useful historical background.

Maybe even this summer I will drive south a little bit and visit Ludlow and the ghost towns there myself, I doubt if I will learn what scrip was in use that way but I like any excuse to get out into the mountains.
please if you go there send some photos here to see ..and anything you learn about the tokens..

whats the year the tokens in photo ?

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